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  1. #781
    Nice work, sounds like a tough second run! I agree with your analysis that it would have been better to smash the bike as if your faced with obstacles that have to be walked it would make no odds. Live and learn eh

  2. #782
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    Its that time of year again. Long run sundays. 17 miles yesterday, it was every bit as hard as i remember it being. This is the 6th Marathon i have trained for. I feel slow and very much in need of more running practice. Edinburgh Rock&Roll Half marathon 15th April, Edinburgh Marathon 27th May..... If i think my legs will take it, may do Selkirk mtb marathon on 20th May.
    makes me tired just thinking about it!

  3. #783
    Senior Member Dirty Karlos's Avatar
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    Ah, Selkirk is earlier than normal this year, I might see you there. If there is an MTB event worth doing, that's at the top of the list :-)

    As for running, I still hate it...

  4. #784
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    i really wish the Selkirk wasnt the week before the Edinburgh marathon! I love the Selkirk as an event, but on the other hand a have put myself through all these weeks of discomfort running, and have some hard runs to do in the coming weeks. is it too much of a risk to do both? i am may not be fit enough to recover in time to do both. hmm, will play it by ear and see how my legs feel come May, which is of course aaaaaaaages away ;-)

  5. #785
    Had a bit of a running dip in the last month, been swiming a lot and trying to up the bike milage for HONC. However last couple of weeks I've got the average back up over 20 miles per week.
    Big mistake tonight, I rocked up for the running club session thinking it would be a nice big mixed ability group - but it was just the hardcore chaps who all run sub 3h marathons and 10k's off 35's. 8 hard offroad miles later I was almost literally on my knees! Calves are f***ed now !

  6. #786
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    20 miler on sunday. it was hard hard work. i seem to be slower this year than usual for this stage in my training. i rode Glentress on monday, and could really feel the previous day's 20 miles running in my legs! was weak, tired and clumsy.
    Sadly i have to miss this coming sunday's Edinburgh Rock and Roll half marathon as i have to travel for work. this is extremely displeasing, it looked like being a fun event. training overall is going slowly, but hopefully by the time i start the taper in about 4 weeks time, my running legs will have come back.

  7. #787

  8. #788
    Senior Member Lur'bak's Avatar
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    I subscribe to the three poo theory.

  9. #789
    Senior Member Sniper's Avatar
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    I actually had a 5 and bit mile run along the beach recently. Seeing as I haven't been able to run due to the knee I was quite surprised that I finished with a 7 min mile and left my two running companions trailing in my wake!

    Bloody knee was sore for a week though! It's shit getting old and infirm!

  10. #790
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    20 miler yesterday. it was horrible! really staggering for the last 2 miles. really just wanted to stop. I kept going, but it wasnt pretty. Spent the rest of the evening groaning like and old man and limping round the place.

  11. #791
    Sorry to hear your not feeling the running mojo at bthe moment Fraser! - still at least you did'nt drop dead at the end of it!

    I've managed to get back in the gym for a few sessions as well as running outside - liking the fact I can get back on some speed work and interval sessions.
    5x800m off 3 minutes with 3 minute recovery the other day, felt great!

  12. #792
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    I was still jiggered on my run on tuesday night, staggered round 4 miles and called it quits and headed home. Took a rest day yesterday. Will see how it goes tonight. if my legs are still tired i will take an easy run, hoping to recover in time for another long run this weekend. not ideal, scheduled for all sorts of fast, fartleks, temp, hill type varations during the week that i am at the moment not strong enough for.

  13. #793
    Senior Member Sniper's Avatar
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    Fraser, running 20 miles is not for the faint hearted and its hardly surpising you felt shite during and after. Personally I would never have run that distance as a training run, unless its a few weeks before a marathon. I think you stand a great chance of picking up stress injuries on that distance, so better to stick with distances up to 15 miles and push the pace when you can.

  14. #794
    Fraser it may just be an impression from the forum but you do seem to be running long over a long period, you seem to have been clocking 20 milers for months? With your base and the cross training you do on the bike I would have thought you could go from a longest run of say 14 miles to a marathon in 8-9 weeks including a couple of 20+ miler in the process.

    I pb'd tonight on a 6 mile route 3 miles up at 9minutes per mile.3 miles down at 6 minutes per mile 6 miler in just under 45. Well happy!

  15. #795
    Senior Member Gav.'s Avatar
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    Agreeing with Tim and Sniper here - I know the phrase 'overtraining' is banded about by someone who goes to the gym 2 days on the trot thanks to all the fitness bro-science floating about, but it does sound like you are maybe heading into that direction, or worse? for an overuse injury.

    You travel a bit with your job as well don't you, and into hot climates ?
    I would factor that in and give yourself far more rest that I expect you do. Being pretty fit/having good stamina means you can get away with stuff but (and I speak from experience here), then when you really wear yourself out through overtraining/lack of sleep/inadequate recovery/stress etc, its a LOT harder to get back to even rudimentary levels.

    The analogy of current/savings account for your overall energy is good one - I'm guessing that you are dipping maybe a fair bit into your 'savings' account at the moment and you need to top it up by resting more.

  16. #796
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    i think it was travel related, I had ran 4 nights in a row when i was in Doha the week before. it was rather hot. then i landed from overnight flight on friday, rode in the hills saturday and did long run on the sunday. but also of course the effects of the big miles.
    I was out last night after resting wednesday, legs feeling better but still not ready for pushing hard efforts, i jogged round 6 miles slower than marathon pace and didnt push it. will rest again tonight.
    Its exactly 4 weeks till marathon, so another long run tomorrow, another next week then i am tapering.
    on monday i am off to Singapore, so will be running in the heat (Gav, i dont know where you got the impression i travel to hot places? :-)) hopefully i wont be away next weekend, as it means i will have to do my final long run in heat and humidity. if that happens, then much slower, much less far and with plenty in the camelbak will be the order of the day i think! i have ran in Singapore before, its ok you just have to run very slowly.

  17. #797
    Senior Member Gav.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
    i think it was travel related, I had ran 4 nights in a row when i was in Doha the week before. it was rather hot. then i landed from overnight flight on friday, rode in the hills saturday and did long run on the sunday.
    Really ? 4 runs in a hot climate, over night flight on Fri, Sat cycle and then 20mile on Sun. Thats a fair amount of training/exercise there without the travelling!

  18. #798
    Senior Member Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav. View Post
    Really ? 4 runs in a hot climate, over night flight on Fri, Sat cycle and then 20mile on Sun. Thats a fair amount of training/exercise there without the travelling!
    Even if you drank water for a day before that run, there would still be some unlying dehydration from what you have described. Its obvious and hardly surprising you selt shite!

    also if you can't run six miles faster than marathon pace let alone slower....you shouldn't be running you should be resting. I think you need to reconsider your training methods to something like the following:

    Monday rest
    tues 5 miles hard
    Weds 12 miles easy
    thurs 3 miles eyeballs out
    fri 10 miles medium
    Sat 7 miles medium
    sunday 15miles easy

    three and two weeks before a marathon throw in a couple of 20's. The odd long bike ride is good too.

  19. #799
    Senior Member fCool's Avatar
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    Greetings all. Rest has been forced upon. me. I ran in Singapore, but found i couldnt run for more than 3 miles. ok jet lag and humidity? landed back in Scotland last weekend. rest saturday.
    Ride on sunday not too bad, just slow.

    monday try for last long run before taper. after 2 miles was running slow, with hard effort. this was backed up by Garmin tellingmme pace and heart rate. 20 miler binned. slowly ran round 8.5 miles and home. first 3 miles being slower than last 3 miles of a normal long run.

    day off, then easy short run.
    thursday night tried a session on the cycle trainer. lost all strength after 20 minutes, ok up to then, then just rapidly lost all strength and became weak. binned session.
    cancelled friday's run.
    Saturday went for long ride in the hills, to see if i am strong enough for Selkirk next week. turns out i was really slow round a normal long ride route, and after 18 miles suddenly lost all strength on my way up a hill. had to stop and rest for 10 minutes, slightly concerned that i wasnt going to be able to ride up and over the hills home. i made it home, but had to ride really slow.

    Today's run... not happening, havent even put my running shoes on.

    So Selkirk next weekend, and Edinburgh Marathon weekend after. currently wiped out. if i had tried to do the Selkirk yesterday certainly wouldnt have made it round the full course.
    So rest obvoiously. is this overtraining? although i havnt seemed to be able to do any hard runs in a while. so undertrained caused by being overtrained and not resting, which meant i carried on being tired, and couldnt train hard?
    either way this is concerning. i think i will bin the Selkirk, i havent been able to do many proper long rides for it, so havnet invested anything too much into it, and its supposed to be fun, if i did the Selkirk and didnt enjoy it then that would be horrible.
    The marathon on 27th... i still want to do it, i have put in months of long runs for it. if i think i will make it round then i think i will go for it. its not going to be a PB... I just hope i can recover my strength in time. its 2 weeks away, no time for any training effect, but time enough for recovery and resting to help me i hope.
    Lesson learnt, listen to your body, all the evidence is there in my trainign logs, mr Garmin records everything.
    Last edited by fCool; 13-05-12 at 17:06.

  20. #800
    Senior Member Sniper's Avatar
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    I think you've drained yourself running these long distances and as I mentioned earlier they should be only run on special occasions prior to resting in the lead in to a marathon

    Theres no reason you can't run in a couple of weeks, you've done the miles, take it easy now and turn up on the day feeling fresh and see how it goes. For the record I did London in 4.14 with no training. Someone dropped out with an injury and I took their place.

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