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  1. #21
    Senior Member Neil Helks's Avatar
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    My opinion FWIW is that if it catches on it will be at the expense of 26" wheeled bikes . If it was a"bike industry conspiracy" as some are suggesting then they would have come up with 650 first as a bigger is better idea and then when everybody had been converted to that come up with 29ers even bigger even better . To do it the way they have makes no commercial sense . Anyhow it's interesting to see some of those who were very anti 29ers on this forum a year or so ago changing their stance

  2. #22
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    My reason for changing my stance - and I admit I have - is mainly becuase I got defensive about having 29ers rammed down my throat as the "replacement for 26ers / better etc. now the truth has been discovered which is for some riders and/or some courses they have an advantage over a 26er but not the end of 26ers.

    650b is neither, and therefore is a compromise between 2 standards. It'll only be he death of the 26er if the industry stops making bikes and components - ie gives up on a base revenue stream which exists. They can't do that overnight, and they can't do that until the balance tips to 650b and replaces the 26" market.

    In today's climate, you just aren't going to get a mass of your market to change that quickly.

    Therfore 26 will stay, 29 remains as an alternative. And 650b? Maybe it'll phase in as 26" phases out who knows....

  3. #23
    Senior Member Neil Helks's Avatar
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    Have you ridden a 29er or 650 yet Stan ?
    That is a genuine question . Please don't take it the wrong way . I am seriously interested in your thoughts if you have .

  4. #24
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    No I haven't Neil, my comments are made based on media, and by that I mean reviews, comments and reports from pro races available to the public. I'm not saying 650b is wrong either, but again I'm reacting to comments such as "650b is the end of 26".

    It isn't, by sheer deduction, at least not yet. Also I have not seem a single review which gives factual evidence about why 650b is better than 26 - which doesn't mean there isn't one.

    So, why is the industry investing heavily in 650b then? Money. More products on more shelves to open more wallets.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Neil Helks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I'm not saying 650b is wrong either, but again I'm reacting to comments such as "650b is the end of 26".
    If that was aimed at me then it's not what I said , although reports from the USA seem to suggest that things are going that way . Personally whichever way it goes I will be surprised if the industry can support three wheel sizes but then again if you had asked me 15 years ago how many different headset and bottom bracket standards there would be I would probably have said about 6 not about 100 as seems to be the case .

  6. #26
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    I think you can still get 24" dirt bikes they were quite the rage.

    I was reading something interesting after considering the 29er Downhill Argument. One pundit suggested this, the reasons why DH bike didn't go over was down to a couple of things...that didn't reallt affect XCness too much

    1. 29er wheels are flexible they always will be more flexible per gramme compared to a smaller wheel it just is.
    2. You couldn't get a Downhill Fork in 29er for love nor money, apparently this is down to the stroke length and travel length issues...again flex comes into it.

    These issues are being ironed out as the kit evolves and apparently you can now get very stiff 27.5er wheels and Fox are bringing out clown bike triple clamps.

    the one thing that really will affect the gravity world is going to be the wheelbase (on the same Hook at afan my race geometry 29 hardtail touched the floor whilst all of the Slack Yeti Bouncer were a few inches off the floor) Big travel bikes are long wheelbase as they are stick an extra few inches on for a 27.5" wheel and then you're looking at a huge wheelbase.

    For that reason I'm with stan on this and reckon 26" wheels are here to stay and I think the 3 will live in harmony for a number of years. I don't think the indusrty can kill of 26" much like the CD never killed off vinyl and the demise of the print industry has been going on for the last 30 years!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Nobby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Helks View Post
    My opinion FWIW is that if it catches on it will be at the expense of 26" wheeled bikes . If it was a"bike industry conspiracy" as some are suggesting then they would have come up with 650 first as a bigger is better idea and then when everybody had been converted to that come up with 29ers even bigger even better . To do it the way they have makes no commercial sense . Anyhow it's interesting to see some of those who were very anti 29ers on this forum a year or so ago changing their stance
    But what they have done, quite successfully IMHO, is create a polarised view of each 'standard'. Surely that's the perfect way to bring a third 'standard' to market which holds a majority of the benefits attributed to each of the other two.

    like Serge, I found the 29ers too unwieldy for my liking but liked the impro ved roll it gave. Looking forward to trying a proper 650b at some point - the Genius looks favourite at the minute but it's got far too much travel....

  8. #28
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    Choice is a good thing. Endless discussion of size is a shit thing.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Frii View Post
    Choice is a good thing. Endless discussion of size is a shit thing.
    What he said.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Neil Helks's Avatar
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    Talking about bike related issues on a cycling web site is a shit thing ??!

    Mindless drivel is very popular on here , perhaps they should re-name the site Mindless drivel dot com in the interest of accuracy

  11. #31
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    A slightly twisted take on what I claimed above, Neil. It's the endless discussion of wheelsize that gets my goat, but hey, I don't have to read it, right...

  12. #32
    its true, we do not see loads of threads on frame angles, although suspension travel threads are popular, how much is to much etc.
    anyway it seems people do not have the same heated feelings that they did with the 29er thing, more a mild curiosity.

  13. #33
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    Surely that's because of the Heated 29er thing from a few years back?

    Now a new wheel size is not such a big deal anymore, we're almost resigned to the industry telling us what is the 'new' standard...15 speed cassettes 'the future' and the like...meaning every few years changing your entire groupsets

  14. #34
    anyway will try and get a test ride on the dragon and see what i think.

  15. #35
    Charge on the front page looks nice.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Dalesman 's Avatar
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    One [posh voice on] just has to look at the evolution of the Road Bike Wheel to see where the MTB wheel issue is going.
    Smaller wheel front larger back
    = wheels
    Larger wheel front smaller wheel back
    28 inch
    27 1/2 inch
    700
    That'll do its a compromise.

    Now MTB are going through the same and will settle on 650b same as road biking, as with a few adaptions to bolt on bits you can fit 26" and 650b in the same frames, just like you could put 700c into an old english wheel sized frame just needed different reach brakes.

    Edit:- I blame the French

  17. #37
    Senior Member Lord Greenville's Avatar
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    *Tries to care.........................can't*

  18. #38
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    I think 650b is the best choice for me.as you said 29er is a little bigger.I bought a set of 650b wheels,a 650b frame,they are match so much

  19. #39
    Are you planning your own build, which frame did you get?

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