PDA

View Full Version : Soccer, some sense at last!



BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 08:32
Premiership teams to pay to police their own games...Bloody good idea if you ask me

The Littlest Hobo
12-08-08, 08:33
Are you american?  Bloody soccer indeed

Dalesman
12-08-08, 08:34
Coppers taking back handers again

Milton the Sausage
12-08-08, 08:36
I remember gramps telling me that in his day football was always referred to as soccer and rugby was called football, or rugby football.

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 08:39
Soccer is the name of the sport you numpty, Though I prefer to call it 20 men on a field with a ball.

The Littlest Hobo
12-08-08, 08:45
No its football.  Soccer is an americanism.  Just the mention of the word makes me picture a fat american woman with a hotdog in her hand and a large diet coke in the other saying it On the subject of police, i cant believe football clubs have not paid for it in full for years.  I heard on the radio that some clubs do pay the full bill (Portsmouth) but others have anual bills of only £500,000 (Man Utd) .  Hell thats Ronaldos wage for 1 month the tight gits.

Alx
12-08-08, 08:46
It's football. Always has been and always will be.

Dick Barton
12-08-08, 08:56
It's sh!t - always has been always will be...

Roger Rogue
12-08-08, 08:57
Black Heart Billy* wrote (see)Soccer is the name of the sport you numpty, Though I prefer to call it 20 men on a field with a ball.22 last time I looked.As the game is run by the Football Association in this country and FIFA - The Fédération Internationale de Football Association (French for International Federation of Association Football), I think we can safely say Football.

Milton the Sausage
12-08-08, 08:58
Men? Really?

The Littlest Hobo
12-08-08, 08:59
pmsl

Howie
12-08-08, 09:18
Its definately football for me also.  There is nothing wrong with the game, I still play and love it!In relation to the police, you will find that the majority of officers who police these games will have been forced to give up one of their rest days to do it.  This rest day will obviously be on a Saturday or Sunday on a weekend off, when they will only get 2 weekends off in 5 weeks.  So I think they should all be paid for giving up their weekends.But they dont tend to get paid for them just a day back in lieu, so any money paid to the police for the games will just go into the pool!

Davidian
12-08-08, 09:34
Is there an artical to go with this?As far as I was aware the football clubs have always had to pay for the policing within the grounds and they have no say in how many police turn up.  So, if you don't pay then you don't play.  There was an incident in the last couple of seasons where a club said that the amount of police sent to a game (and therefor the cost of the policing) was excessive and didn't want to pay so were told their next games couldn't go ahead. Outside of the ground it technically nothing to do with the club so they don't pay.  That's the way I understand it anyway.....And I can't even believe there had to be a discussion as to whether it was called Football or soccer.......

quintessential Quin
12-08-08, 09:34
Its camp

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 09:36
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7553875.stm

The Littlest Hobo
12-08-08, 09:41
There wouldnt have been a discussion about wether it was called football or soccer if he had used the correct term in the first place Oh and i cant believe you havent seen the article on this subject.  Have you never heard of google?

Howie
12-08-08, 09:44
Its personal knowledge shall we say!  You are quite right though that the clubs only pay for the police inside the ground, which I think is a bit wrong, when you take into account most trouble and organised violence takes place outside the ground.

Sadbloke, missing for a while
12-08-08, 10:15
Is socer the game played by 2 teams of 11 lads, that run up and down a field chaseing a leather ball, then when one finally manages to get it between two wooden post, with a fishermans net hanging off it, they all turn in to raving homosexuals, kissing each other, hugging etc, or when fails to get it between the said posts, they cry or hit each other, then they all go into a small room and strip off and shower together.also whats the thing with men wearing a shirt with some kids name on the back, dressing up in shorts, etc.Also why the fuck do they get paid so much, and for what,bunch of hairy legged, gelled haired, jessies if you ask me.

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 10:24
As the game is run by the Football Association in this country and FIFA - The Fédération Internationale de Football Association (French for International Federation of Association Football), I think we can safely say Football.You really do seem to over labour your point. It reminds me of those psychological studies where the most outwardly homophobic participants were the most aroused by homosexual imagery.

Milton the Sausage
12-08-08, 10:24
LOL

Sadbloke, missing for a while
12-08-08, 11:03
22 fit, athletic young men running around a field, in shorts and ttops, then taking them off, then into the communal showers.Yep can see why i hate football!Labour , me, please doint insult me, working class socialist , yes, Labour NO WAY.

Roger Rogue
12-08-08, 11:32
Black Heart Billy* wrote (see)As the game is run by the Football Association in this country and FIFA - The Fédération Internationale de Football Association (French for International Federation of Association Football), I think we can safely say Football.You really do seem to over labour your point. It reminds me of those psychological studies where the most outwardly homophobic participants were the most aroused by homosexual imagery.Speak for yourself.  Just because I point something out to you there's no need to go all homophobic on me sweetheart.

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 11:34
Like the blades of a lawn mower, that quip went right over your head didn't it!

Dr Dolittle the pedalling chinchilla
12-08-08, 11:35
It was Wigan who complained. My sister in law works for Wigan council on police budgeting - she draw up the bill Wigan claimed was excessive. Wigan thought they only had to pay for the officers in the JJB stadium or its immediate surrounds. The council felt they should also pay for the additional police in the adjacent Robin Park retail park (which reports large increases in theft and car crime on match days) plus the 30-40 officers that patrol the walk from the two main stations to the grounds. A match day typically requires 60 additional officers on the streets of Wigan than is normal for a Saturday, and thats not including those inside the grounds. Oh, but surely all those fans bring something to the town economy? Well yes, they cripple it! Because Wigan really only has one major route through town (Wigan pier) which runs close to the Stadium so is stationary on match days. Which means nobody goes into town on a match day, and hence the shops report a drop in business! So as you can imagine, local residents and businesses were only too happy for Wigan Athletic to foot the bill for the police. 

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 11:43
Ban live football. Close the stadiums to spectators. Make TV coverage free. Stop pubs & bars from playing live matches.Removes trouble from the streets. Saves money and would very quickly reduce the obscene wages that the Queens who 'play' the game would earn.*ducks under desk*

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 11:44
why duck under desk? you raise some salient points.

Dr Dolittle the pedalling chinchilla
12-08-08, 11:50
Indeed. Points in fact the anyone who does not follow football but is inconvienced by the chaos that each match brings to the local area would agree with......

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 11:53
Like the fact I have to make a special effort to avoid pubs with TV's for 9 months of the year

Davidian
12-08-08, 11:57
*ignore tedious anti football remarks (apart from the funny ones)Who pays for the policing of other sport\non-sporting events where lots of people go? I'm thinking of large concerts, music festivals, Silverstone on F1 weekend, Carnivals etc.  Any one know?  I can totally see that just because the fans have left the stadium that the football clubs should contribute to that policing as well but what happens at other events.Bollocks for football......Emms and Robertson have just made the mother of all comebacks in the badminton!!

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 11:59
*peers over desk*You mean, I'm not going to get my -ing head kicked in?

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 12:02
Only if you wear your Exeter Utd shirt down Jesters

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 12:08
The concert promoter has to pay for security / policing both inside and outside the venue. Same for big sporting events (like the F1 etc) If an event is run for the public (no entry fee charged) then it's covered by normal policing.I don't understand football violence. I often go and watch the Hockey (which is a hell of a lot more violent than Football now that Vinny no longer plays) and you never, ever get trouble in the crowd. We drink, we chant, we get riled up but after the game everyone goes away happy and there's no need for the Police to keep the opposing teams fans apart.Why do fans fight?

The crazy world of Monkey Space Pilot
12-08-08, 12:15
I seem to recall watching several hockey riots on the news

Davidian
12-08-08, 12:23
There is very very little fighting in English grounds nowadays.  Not saying it doesn't happen but it is very rare, but when it does happen it's in every paper and on every website.  Same as on the pitch, if a punch is thrown in a football match then it's every where and people (normally not people that actually understand the sport) go on about 'over paid premadonna's' blah blah blah.....but in my experience there is considerably more violence in the average rugby match than the average football much but because it's not as popular and doesn't sell as many papers its not reported on.  As to why some football fans like a fight I have no idea.  But the reason they like a fight is not because they are football fans.  I truly believe that they are the same people tearing up the town centers on a Friday\Saturday night. 

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 12:36
Last Hockey game I went to was San Jose / Vancouver. At one point there was a lone player on the ice after everyone else had been sent off for fighting. Totally ridiculous. On that occasion fans from both sides let the players know we weren't happy with a slow clap but still there was no trouble amongst the fans. Maybe I'm lucky and just live in a safe place.I guess you'll get morons who attach themselves to any sport. That certainly seems to be the case with that weird bunch that follow cricket.

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 12:41
Doesn't it follow that the greater the violence on the pitch the lesser the violence in the crowd?You want to come down to see some of the Devon Crown Green Bowling matches...the octogenarians are like fucking animals, stabbings, beatings gun crime the lot one woman got decapitated by a zimmer frame just last week in TeignmouthThe 'bay side cruiser gang are taking to drive by shootings and when you're cruising in your nissan micra at 5mph those boys don't miss, but watch out for the cross fire, parkinsons disease and gun shots often mean a lot of collateral damage.

Dr Dolittle the pedalling chinchilla
12-08-08, 12:43
Spencer Scanlan wrote (see)*ignore tedious anti football remarks (apart from the funny ones)Who pays for the policing of other sport\non-sporting events where lots of people go? I'm thinking of large concerts, music festivals, Silverstone on F1 weekend, Carnivals etc.  Any one know?  I can totally see that just because the fans have left the stadium that the football clubs should contribute to that policing as well but what happens at other events.Bollocks for football......Emms and Robertson have just made the mother of all comebacks in the badminton!!As already stated, most of those events do indeed get charged for the full policing costs - but there is also another point here. They are mostly annual events, not every other saturday for half the year. Covering the costs of a one-off is not the same as a regular occurance.

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 12:47
PMSL @ BHB

Davidian
12-08-08, 12:57
"Doesn't it follow that the greater the violence on the pitch the lesser the violence in the crowd?"I've always thought the people that want to get involved in organised football violence should market themselves as half time entertainment.  After all they WANT to fight so why not make some money out of it.  It would make the 15 mins pass quicker....and if you can through a few automatic pistol equiped OAP's into the mix all the better!

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 13:01
theres that old saying about gentlemans sport played by hooligans in the soccer v rugby thing isn't there

Davidian
12-08-08, 13:07
I think it goes 'Rugby - Watched by gentlemen, played by hooligans'.  If the other half goes 'Football - Watched by hooligans, played by gentlemen' then they've clearly not seen the amount of cheating that goes on in football these days!Back to the original point.  Football clubs are abiding by the rules by paying for the policing in the grounds and not outside.  Who is at fault? The rule followers or the rule makers?

BHB 10.6.6
12-08-08, 13:08
I think the fact that the vast sums of money generated in premiership football aren't being distributed fairly. It seems stupid that the tax payer should foot the bill for the policing when you factor in the amount of money generated by each match.

Roger Rogue
12-08-08, 13:10
Trouble is, if there's a ruckus a couple of miles from the ground how can the club be held responsible?

Davidian
12-08-08, 13:12
Totally agree, especially when clubs like Arsenal have moved stadium specifically to generate more money per game through higher attendance (something like 75% per game). 

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 13:20
It could happen 2000 miles from the match as far as I'm concerned. If it's because of football or alcohol consumed while watching football the club is responsible. Make the punishment so severe that nobody would dare step out of line. You get drunk and start a fight while watching your team play - 500,000 fine for the team. Then see how quickly they step up and start taking some responsibility.*ducks again*

Stephanos Wephanos
12-08-08, 13:35
They should pay, end of.  If crime goes up in an area on match day and more police are required to keep all the numpties in order then I don't see there been any argument.

Davidian
12-08-08, 13:36
Insert Wit *here* wrote (see)It could happen 2000 miles from the match as far as I'm concerned. If it's because of football or alcohol consumed while watching football the club is responsible. Make the punishment so severe that nobody would dare step out of line. You get drunk and start a fight while watching your team play - £500,000 fine for the team. Then see how quickly they step up and start taking some responsibility. *ducks again* How on earth is the club responsible for it?  Taking your 'solution' logically forward Sainsbury's are responsible for the death of the poor man who was stabbed in one of it's queues recently. In my experience football clubs do what they can to stop the violence that they have control over i.e. in the grounds.  Their stewards have no power outside of the ground.Now get back behind your desk until you have something sensible to say.....or funny, whichever is more appropriate.

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 14:13
Sainsbury weren't taking part in a Sporting event and had no reasonable expectation that a knife wielding maniac was likely to go off on one in a store killing a customer. On the other hand, football clubs know full well that they have hardcore groups of fans who do take a fierce pride (at best) in their teams and who, with the addition of alcohol have repeatedly proven themselves to be untrustworthy as they smash up City centers, demolish pubs and generally make a nuisance of themselves. How many times have the FA imposed fines on Teams that have had fans cause problems? Plenty. How many times have Clubs who're facing being barred from competition (in Europe or on a wider stage) appealed to their fans not to cause problems as it's damaging the club? Plenty. I don't see how my suggestion is that controversial considering it's really just an expansion on what has already happened in the past.

Roger Rogue
12-08-08, 15:49
Why not fine the manufacturers of alcoholic beverages too?Alot of so-called fans have no interest in the football at all, it is just an excuse for a few beers and an afternoon out - throw in a punch-up and they're happy.  What would happen if two teams - say Birmingham City and Aston Villa are both playing away then the "fans" bumped into each other after a bad result and proceeded to beat 12 shades of sh*te out of each other?Would you still penalise the teams who were both playing away and have no control over the fans? 

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 16:12
Yes. I'm afraid I would. Even if the two teams hadn't been competing against each other it's still their 'fans' who would be causing problems. Like I said, make the consequences so appalling and severe that nobody would allow the behaviour to continue. You can guarantee that if the clubs financial security was in jeopardy that they would step in to do something to sort the problems out.And don't get me started on charging the Breweries & Alcopop makers. There's things I'd be doing to them as well.

Davidian
12-08-08, 16:46
ISW - The problem with the type of approach you're suggesting is that it can be extended to everything.  The football club whose fans riot in a town centre, the brewer whose beer got someone drunk before a fight, the knife manufacture whose product kills another kid in a gang or the bike maker who made the bike used by a cyclist to run over a pedestrian.  The problem comes down to the individual in each and every case.

Dr Dolittle the pedalling chinchilla
12-08-08, 17:16
Actually its really simple - the system is already in place, at school. As a teacher I can tell you the school is held responsible for pretty much anything our pupils get up to going to or from school, regardless of distance, and indeed anything done whilst in our uniform. So as far as I can see if a bloke in a United shirt starts a bar fight in Ibiza, Old Trafford should take some flak........

Davidian
12-08-08, 18:21
And with the kids that are on our streets at the moment that system is working perfectly isn't it!

Mr.Wilson
12-08-08, 21:04
If it's enforced (comes down to Policing and the bloody 'Human Rights' Nazis) yes, it can. Parents need to suck it up and take responsibility as well though.Anyway. I did say I was done with the footy thread. To quote some soccer bloke somewhere: They think it's all over...