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View Full Version : Oui ou non?



Carlos the Slackal
27-05-05, 10:31
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4585221.stm so, La France goes to the vote on the EU constitution. Now, if you ask me, only a State needs a constitituion, and I feel that Europe is too large and too diverse an area ever to be under the umbrella of one state. Of course, if Les Grenoouilles vote Non" then the technocrats in Brussels will almost certainly just go ahead with whatever they want to do anyway, so what, exactly, is the point? "

Nurse Padowan Hobbit
27-05-05, 10:37
I think it sets the tone for the rest of Europe. The Frogs have been pro-Europe for yonks and have been quite open about that (good for them, I say, but anyway...) but if they vote against the constitution on Sunday it opens the door for other countries to start doubting the whole scheme a la well, if those staunch pro-Euro Froggies aren't keen, then maybe it *is* a bad idea..." Stand by for mass wailing and gnashing of teeth in Bruxelles and frantic rearrangement of the whol;e constitution to give it a more Francofriendly edge."

Mister Khomenni
27-05-05, 10:43
yeah what chance has it got of being voted for in the UK if the French don't want it.

Carlos the Slackal
27-05-05, 10:50
A Non vote would give our Tone an easy opt out, that means he wouldn't have to have a referndum that he knows he would lose.

Lardy Boy
27-05-05, 11:08
The French don't want it because they're so insular and protectionist. The only reason they have been pro-Europe all this time is because they have benefitted enormously. Look at the wine growers protests this week. Just because people (even the Frnch) are fed up with drinking wine that tastes as if it's been strained though a tramps sock, they are protesting, throwing petrol bombs at the police and I can hardly believe this, but they have also spawned a militant terrosist wing that is blowing up tankers of cheaper Spanish imports.What'll happen now? Well, the French government will do everything it can to ensure that foreign wine imports are taxed so heavily that the French people will buy French again because its cheaper. With a European constitution, the French proletariat is afraid they will no longer be able to do this AND demand massive subsidies from Europe.

Troll Hattan
27-05-05, 12:40
according to my French (commie) friends, the Non" vote is because the consititution is based around economics rather than social issues, and would mean a move toward US & UK style capitalism away from social democracy.We analysed the constitution documents: the most frequent words were "Bank" and markets."

Sinead
27-05-05, 12:45
Well CT, I definately think it will affect our decision next year when we have the chance to vote on it! Still not sure however whether its a good or bad thing!

JohnG
27-05-05, 14:59
You won't get the chance to vote Sinead. A French non means Blair cancels the UK referendum. The vibes I'm getting are that the nons are more motivated than the ouis and more likely to get off their butts and vote on Sunday.I can't vote :(I drink local wines because I like them Lardy. Madiran, St Mont and Juranšon.

Nurse Padowan Hobbit
27-05-05, 15:17
You a frog, John?

Carlos the Slackal
27-05-05, 15:17
Does Ste get half a vote, I wonder?

Troll Hattan
27-05-05, 15:18
'e's a bloody immigrant, innee?

JohnG
27-05-05, 15:23
Nope Hobbit, I was born and brought up in Birmingham. I've spent over half my adult life here though.

Nurse Padowan Hobbit
27-05-05, 15:25
Ah ha! I see.

SloBoy Three Bikes" Fukawi"
27-05-05, 15:35
I reckon the EU probably needs a constitution but may be not this one.It may be over the next 30 years we'll enter a new era of multiple super powers, following nearly 20 years of 1 + the rest.If China and India continue to grow their economies and skill levels as they have been, Europe may need to stand together to retain a seat at the top table rather than the 2-4 seats that we currently command (2 at the security council, 4 at the G8)

Lardy Boy
27-05-05, 15:42
I drink local wines because I like them Lardy. Madiran, St Mont and Juranšon."Fair enough - each to their own. But just because some people like to experiemnt, it's no reason for the growers to start civil unrest. There must be a reason why the French population are drinking more imports and that reason, to my mind, is that French winemakers have doggedly stuck to 'tradition' instead of evolving like the new world wine producers, and a number of the old world producers. I'm a big fan of Spanish and Italian wines because they ahve realised that theyy cannot make time stand still and produce excellent wines as a result.Anyway, thats all a bit off topic! I imagine it won't be just France that votes no (if indeed there are more votes after the French referendum)."

Carlos the Slackal
27-05-05, 15:45
The Dutch are also highly likely to vote no.

JohnG
27-05-05, 15:51
Sloboy I reckon the EU probably needs a constitution but may be not this one."Something to tidy up the treaties of Rome, Maastricht and Nice and clearly define the extent to which the EU can meddle in national government. Most Europeans still don't fully understand the extent to which their leaders have already signed away national perogatives.IMO the constitution would have to be a step back from the current situation not more power for Brussels if Europeans are to vote for it."

JohnG
29-05-05, 18:20
A pretty good turnout so far. The Front National have just had crates of Champagne delivered to their Campagne pour le Non headquaters.

Goaty-Death Facilitator.....
29-05-05, 20:57
It would appear the French have said 'Non'

Carlos the Slackal
02-06-05, 09:00
So, France give it a solid two fingers, and the Dutch have scuppered the ship totally. And yet....and yet...anyone see Neil Get me on the EU Gravy Train" Kinnock on the news this morning? Apparently, it's all because the electorate are stupid and wrong and therefore Europe should just ignore the result. WTF? I think someone else on the news had it much better, describing it as a "joyous outbreak of democracy". Well done the French and the Dutch, for both standing up against this technocracy of Europe. And, finally....is it prescient that the German central bank were recently discussing what to do if/when the Euro ceases to exist?"

JohnG
02-06-05, 09:41
The Italian economy has been losing export sales because the euro means a competetive devalauation of the Lira every three years is no longer possible. The French like the euro though.I can sleep easier now I know that Britain doesn't risk being marginalised in Europe and my cosy life here put at risk.

Carlos the Slackal
02-06-05, 09:58
The Dutch hate the Euro, as their bank took them in at a sh1tty rate, and as a result a lot of their money was devalued by about 10%. Not good.

JohnG
02-06-05, 10:31
One currency for a large geographical area always produces a redistribution of economic activity. The U.S. is the classic example with a concentration of wealth in limited areas.

Lardy Boy
02-06-05, 10:50
I can sleep easier now I know that Britain doesn't risk being marginalised in Europe and my cosy life here put at risk."Good man. ;-) To my mind this is why we have democracy and in this case (even if the commment is intentionally flippant), democracy can be said to have benn well and truly exercised and proven to work. Certainly a bit of a wake up call to the Eurocrats in their nice sheltered existence in Brussels, non?"

JohnG
02-06-05, 10:56
Oui :)

SloBoy Three Bikes" Fukawi"
02-06-05, 11:47
I've been getting the feeling that the referendum question being answered isn't quite the one the Commission had hoped the electorate would answer.It seems almost as if the voters are deciding on:If we'd held a referendum last year on the expansion plans to add the 8 Eastern European countries, Malta and Cyprus, would you have voted YES or NO ?""

Lardy Boy
02-06-05, 12:51
More or less I guess, except what the poeple are now voting for is We don't want any more countries and therefore immigrants, thank you very much". This is pretty much what every French voter I saw interviewed was saying and the same with the Dutch, although of course selective transmission of all the interviews conducted may have coloured the true feeling of the citizenry somewhat."

SloBoy Three Bikes" Fukawi"
02-06-05, 13:32
Yep - and to be fair to the French and Dutch political leadership, I don't think this can be taken as a vote in principal against a very tightly integrated core Europe, and so I reckon they have been reasonably representing the general sentiments of their respective countries. They just got out maneouvred by the expansionists who got the EU to a size and diversity where noone in their right mind would try to build a unified single state.I reckon the two speed Europe starts here and the original 6 will look to create a social democratic megastate. Although maybe the burden of East Germany will make the other 5 look somewhat questioningly at the Fritzes.

Nurse Padowan Hobbit
02-06-05, 13:34
German central bank were recently discussing what to do if/when the Euro ceases to exist"Please excuse my higgorance, but how could it cease to exist? Surely as a major globally traded currency it couldn't just go *pop* and disappear, especially as the likes of China and North Korea now favour it over the dollar as their hard currency of choice?"

Carlos the Slackal
06-06-05, 10:55
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4612021.stmRun awaaaaaaaaay!""

JohnG
06-06-05, 11:14
Jack Straw spoke and the lie detector didn't budge - must be a glitch.

Carlos the Slackal
06-06-05, 11:21
PMSL! Sorry, Britain can't have a referendum. The public might not give the answer we want them to, and so we've decided to cancel it" Cowards. Give us a chance to say no!"

Patrick Napier
06-06-05, 12:44
Give us a chance to say no!"Or yes if you happen to agree with the issues!"

Carlos the Slackal
06-06-05, 13:00
Valid point, Patrick. Either way, we should be allowed a say. (Even if we already know what the resutl would be!) :)

SloBoy Three Bikes" Fukawi"
06-06-05, 14:37
I can just about see how you could withdraw the Euro. Pretty much the reverse process of introducing it. But the political will to do so would be even more staggering than the achievement of introducing it.