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Jeremy Tapp
24-10-00, 15:28
I'm just watching the rev counter on this thing and every day it is getting busier and busier - it's gonna be huge - note how we've put a little Forum" flash against the names of people in the Localiser who are involved enough with the site to be contributing in the forum. It links to everything they have to say. As we drag more people into the party - that'll populate out I hope. Check it out - we are only just scratching the surface of BM members in here - when we get a decent proportion of us actively in the debate it'll be heaving I hope.So as the forum starts to get massive - I just wanted to have a think about what is and what isn't acceptable. Not for me - for all of us - to make this the most fun / firey / fierce / worthwhile / friendly / useful forum out there. Rather than type it out me-self - I thought I'd do the honourable - and get us to write it together.So - what do you think? On topics like how do we encourage newbies, do we want manufacturers in here, what's abusive, what isn't etc. Once we've written it - I'll get the lads to smack a little text link up to it.Over to you..."

Alistair Freeman
24-10-00, 15:43
Yes we do want manufacturers. Don't know the best way to encourage newbies, probably touting the forum in the newsletter and on the homepage occasionally is about the best way. As far as what's abusive and what isn't, you've got a problem there as one man's banter is another's insult. Perhaps you could put a link for reporting forum abuse (spamming, insults, whatever) on the forum main page and just investigate any complaints people make, otherwise leave well alone. Then the offending poster could be warned to tone it down via email and hopefully things'll settle down. Let's face it, most people here are well-behaved (it has got a bit overheated a couple of times of late though :) ) and we don't want to stifle lively debate, do we?

Tony Wade
24-10-00, 15:52
From what I have found I think bike magic has a lot of friendly banter in it, just like when you are out on the trail. And yes, we do want manufacturers in here, I want to hear there say, and I want them to hear my say, and I want companies to listen to what we are saying. Just like in the thread I started what we want" I want people to tell the manufacturers, and it would be a great help to know that they are listening, what better way to rate products than the entire British Public. As for spamming, I haven't seen that yet, and most people in hear are well behaved, and the help the newbies are getting is phenomianal (you know what I mean) Perhaps a disclaimer as you enter the forum saying people who use bad language, are racist etc will be booted off or something."

Jeremy Tapp
24-10-00, 15:54
Ok - we're going to try and encourage manufacturers then. (I'll put some stuff in the manufacturers newsletter we send out - asking them to get amongst it). I loved reading SRAM and Middleburn piling into the debate - and I know that there are lots of other manufacturers lurking - cause they mention stuff out of here on the phone.So, first couple of points, for the Code of Conduct":(1) Newbies welcome - don't be intimidated by the raging debates - it's fun and YOUR views are WELCOME. We're not grumpy really, just having fun.(2) Manufacturers - you're welcome too - but don't try and stifle our debateErm - I like the idea of a report abuse type button. That's probs the best way to handle it. But wouldn't mind some general guidelines. I totally agree that as it is at the moment the debate is super clean and very worthwhile. I also happen to think the heated moments are a good thing. Anyhow."

Gary Ewing
24-10-00, 16:07
What about the different topics?Soapbox - for people who like a rant.MTB - for less controversial things like 'where can I find an interior designer?'I'm tearing my hair out here.Are the manufacturers actually going to debate, or just try and baffle everyone with bullsh and then say how great they are?It should be an opportunity for them to extend their customer service, rather than a free extension to their advertising.

Sally Hotchkin
24-10-00, 16:38
I think with manufacturers that there will be two streams of people; one lot who are individuals randomly coming in and then start to defend their products as they see fit and a second lot of manufacturers who are definitely formally invited. For the second lot you could give them examples of what works and doesn't when you invite them.The reason I'm thinking this is that a lot of outdoor gear manufacturers (sorry I'll introduce myself, I run OUTDOORSmagic - hello!) were nervous about getting involved with forums after one had blatantly gone for the 'marketing speak' response in one and got subsequently slammed. If they had thought about this more they would have realised people can spot it a mile off. It took a while to explain that forums are best used for 'listening' than 'pushing' and that they are a valuable way of talking to people who really use the stuff. Best to be humble in those circumstances.Sorry, that was a bit off the code of conduct chat, but I reckon close feedback with manufacturers will iron out any potential advertising problems.

Tony Wade
24-10-00, 16:42
Sally, Jeremy,I thought (like many others) that everyone in the bike,outdoors,golf,etc. magic, worked together as all the set ups are the same and they are all linked together on the opening page. Surely you/we should all be working together?

Mark Lewis
24-10-00, 17:40
Can we have an FAQ for new users of the Forum. One point this should cover is that new users should read the recent threads and use the search facility to avoid repeating previous threads - we've had exactly this happen in a few cases, e.g. SPDs, winter leggings and please recommend a bike for 500"."

Phil Jaworek
24-10-00, 18:34
The forum is a great place for manufacturers to get a feel for their products and their contribution should be encouraged.I used the yahoo cannondal club/forum last year when I had problems with cannondale, they eventually found there were so many gripes about their products that they put a couple of their technical guys on it to act as consultants. Which for a company like cannondale with a lousy customer relations reputation was a great step forward.So it can work for a single brand club, just how it would work with an all encompassing forum like this Im not sure, cos we all ride different kit.

jonathan mimnagh
24-10-00, 18:42
I don't know if I count as a regular user or not, but I've used the forum quite a lot. A couple of points, and these are in response to the recent posts from Brant, and replies from a certain individual to a thread i started on steel frames. Personal insults ahould be the quickest way off BikeMagic. I don't want to start a thread, or join in a thread, and have a faceless individual tell me I'm a t@{{er. Its the cyber equivalent of a nuisance telephone call. When Brant started his Grumpy sods thread and ranted on at most of the frequent contributors, I almost shelved Bikemagic there and then. I've had more hassle from 2 people within the bike industry than from anyone else who usse these pages. And this makes me wonder, do we need manufacturers contributing to the forum. Imagine someone asking for info about a bike, or a item of kit. All the replies will be ours is the greatest, the lightest, the biggest....blah, blah, blah. I like BM because people tell the truth about products they use. Individuals would be shouted down among jargon from manufacturers. Perhaps have a separate forum for people to approach the makers, but not on the general forum side of things, please. "

Gary Galpin
24-10-00, 18:46
I agree I think that the manufacturers should be encouraged but not as a platform for marketing, more as a listening and replying contribution, after all I think that any manufacturer who enters into it in this way would gain a lot of respect from thise using the forum so the advertising will become a natural by-product of how much the appear to care about their customers.As regards the fact that we all ride different stuff then surely the manufacturers should be allowed in to defend themselves whenever there is a gripe?Newcomers should be encouraged especially to read the current threads, one thing I find a bit annoying though is that when I first sign on each time it tells me which threads are new, but as soon as I've visited one section eg maintenance and then one thread from that, all the ''NEW'' flashes have dissappeared when I return, so I now no longer no which threads have new postings.I also love the way some threads go off on wierd tangents, some of you must be on some good stuff or is it just the adrenalin building up cos you're not on your bikes?

Gary Galpin
24-10-00, 18:51
OK, Ignore the bit about the ''NEW'' flashes I've just spotted the open folders DOH!!!

richard barton
24-10-00, 20:26
I reckon the forum should be used by Manufacturers but not as a means of marketing, it should be there for views and opinions on products or as a means of replying to a question - like Madison in the Is 8-speed dead thread.What really annoys me is the personal insults thrown at people, this can't be avoided but surely something can be done about them - Brant for example has had a go at almost everyone of the regulars in here, which is fair enough, he's entitled to his own opinion but the thread has been created for views and opinions not as a shouting board to let everyone know your annoyed at something (unless thats what the thread is for anyway!).I say keep it up, the only problem with rules is maintaining them...but someone else can work those out - I have to admit though, foul language is annoying in here, even though I swear myself, I don't want to read it on BikeMagic...

Tim Johnson
24-10-00, 21:26
I agree with Richard on a few points. I swear, but there is no need to write it - remember that any one can read this forum. There are a few industry types in here already,me for one,now I don't use forums for selling - should I?

Toni Ertl
24-10-00, 22:18
I agree with the guys above about the language issue - while expletives can be used to put a funny or emphatic spin on a thought, when used as anti-personnel it immediately ceases to be acceptable.As for the manufacturers issue, there has been quite a bit of debate in other threads about them deciding what we were going to think was hot or not. The point is, we DO question before we buy (don't we?). Prime example being all the guys recommending a Kona as a bike for 300. They all had their reasons, and image didn't get mentioned once. In any case, if the corporate types DO get excessive then they can be asked to leave like any body else.Am I really right in thinking that there would be no 'editing' of very controversial threads?

David Parr
25-10-00, 02:19
Surely the manufacturers would be totally at our mercy here, so long as it was obvious who they were. All those awkward questions we could ask, I'm dribbling here. As for conduct etc, I reckon it's spot on so far, look at gofar if you want to see a forum lose its way. There's been the odd spot of insulting etc (some of it from me) but it was justified at the time, and it's only happened once really, the debate is why I come here, let's not kill it, but yeah, keep it friendly.

tony mcgarley
25-10-00, 06:55
any advertisers would probably be sussed very soon after trying to sell their product. BM readers aren't stupid. David Parr said so long as it was obvious who they were". could you make it obvious? that would be good. PS.. 16 messages and NO kevin hodgson???"

Alistair Freeman
25-10-00, 07:50
Perhaps for the FAQ we could link to the rec.cycling.off-road MTB FAQ for now while we get our own up and running? It's a bit US-orientated, but does cover a lot of basics. It's at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/mountain-bikes/ if anyone wants to take a look and post what they think.

Dave Jones
25-10-00, 11:03
Seeing as i've got involved with some frisky forum operations, i'd say that when you start to introduce censorship no matter in what form, then we are on a slippery slope. We have to rely on education so that we don't completely lose the plot. Hello to Tim Johnson at a certain bike shop who deserves a mention for offering brill service, didn't even mention what his shop is or where he is! Cheers Tim.

Philip Gradwell
25-10-00, 11:13
Manufacturers should be encouraged, but I'd like to know who they are. When I started the single speed conversion thread recently I had no idea Brant worked for on-one. If we didn't know, they could take on whole new personas and reccomend their stuff. As for whether they should be allowed to market stuff, they should be discouraged but it doesn't matter that much 'cos if all I here from one manufactureer is their marketing spiel (sp?) then I'll probably steer clear of them. You can tell quite a bit about what type of company your dealing with from their attitude. The forum is a great place for them to provide support and enhance their customer relations, they should be using it as part of their research.As for conduct it's fine as far as I can see. There are very few out to cause trouble. I think the problem of expressionless comunication via text will always cause problems with miss interpretation. Perhaps we should all think a little more about wheather what we write COULD be taken the wrong way, then if in doubt slap a smiley of some sort on.Well thats my two pennies worth.Phil.

David Brown
25-10-00, 11:30
Manufacturers - a definite yes, they have the right to respond to our criticisms and offer their solutions to our problems.On the subject of our conduct, I think most people on the forum, certainly the regulars, are adult enough to understand humorous comments, but personal attacks should definitely cause the originators exclusion. As far as I'm concerned, I have disabled the email enabled option as the last thing I want is someone who disagrees with my opinions hurling personal abuse at me.

David Brown
25-10-00, 11:33
As an addendum to my comment, it's interesting to note that out of 152 riders in my localiser I'm the only one with a Forum flash against my name...

Matt Jones
25-10-00, 11:50
Again, manufacturers yes, but maybe they should identify themselves for example Bill Bobbins(Orange)? I guess that this would rely on trust but it would help prevent marketing bull slipping through and identify that person as an expert(?) on that particular brand.Conduct is fine, I quite enjoyed the Hodgson/Richards fray, keeps things lively. Someone mentioned the gofar-mtb message board, I agree that thing is crap apart from some guy/thing called Fired the Shogun, he is weird.

Liam Flanagan
25-10-00, 11:56
How about the techie chaps at BM post a yellow card along side someones name for their first case of misconduct, and a red card with say a weeks ban on posting for their second offence rather than ousting them straight away?

Liam Flanagan
25-10-00, 11:57
Sorry, wrong forum... should of posted that on 'Footballmagic.com'I'll get my coat.

richard barton
25-10-00, 13:36
Could that be the first Yellow card then? How about instead of that a rusty chain, then when they are out for a week they get a broken chain?Instead of censorship to the extreme, how about any bad language is reformatted to have all the letters replaced apart from the first one? That way people can type away with whatever and no-one will have to actually read the verbal language.Personal attacks are very difficult to stop, but thats the beauty of this forum, it pulls in all sorts of people within the MTB world and naturally there is going to be a difference of opinion in a lot of cases...Bike manufacturers have to get involved, I don't think it is a should they be allowed, this is the easiest way to get feedback, opinions, questions and even market awareness of a product - this site is used by proper MTBers (as opposed to the ones who buy a MTB and never actually use it for anything), and we should have a right to question, query, criticise and defend what we are buying/saying - manufacturers should be allwoed that same right in here but not to the point where it is only shouting about how great product X is and we should all buy it - the thred on 8-spd is a good example of what I'm getting it - Shimano hasn't commented on this thread but SRAM have stepped in and provided information about it's products and there is nowhere where the SRAM guy is telling we should buy the kit, he is simply stating the facts - nice.

Julian
25-10-00, 14:00
At the risk of being yellow carded here, I look in on a variety of message boards and forums as my interests are wide-ranging - sports, I'd hesitate to add. In the main, they deal with banter from football fans and, it may just be me in the liberal times, but I'm not of the impression that the language is particularly bad on here (the grammer and spelling is another matter). I'm enjoying the communiques from SRAM and I hope the other players will take up the chalice. By the way, anyone else chuckle at the mention of Forum" - it evokes images of Phil Silvers nd Frankie Howard to me."

Julian
25-10-00, 14:17
Just knew that there would be some grammatical and spelling errors in there - is Sod's Law allowed? That's the penalty for sending messages during work's time and whilst the MD and FD are sitting on the other side of my desk wishing to discuss creating a corporate policy on Internet abuse!

brant@shedfire
25-10-00, 18:01
Bad language - make sure you can still ask about routes in Scunthorpe, Penistone, Cockermouth and Clitheroe

Matt Battles
25-10-00, 18:17
It would be helpful to have an FAQ that you could send to people who a) violate etiquette, or b) ask questions that are too often asked by new visitors. Then anyone committing an infraction could receive the FAQ, which would also update them about all sorts of other mistakes that they should avoid making.

Gary Galpin
25-10-00, 19:14
In response to David Brown's comments about the number of forum users.I had also noticed that compared to the numbers who are actually registered with BM there are only a relatively small number who contribute to the forum. Any reason for this? Is ti viewed as intimidating by the majority and if so why? and does this also intimmidate newcommers?

Jeremy Tapp
25-10-00, 19:19
David, Gary,The only people who have a forum flash against their names are the people who contribute. (Pretty soon - we'll be bringing out a little news flash - which will go up with any member who has written any articles / reviews etc.) And we are going to do the same for all the shops and clubs in the country when they post their local race results and stuff.So in short - when they post in the forum - they'll get a forum flash. I dunno why so many people haven't used the forum yet. I guess lots of people just aren't used to forums. Maybe they are intimidated - or maybe they just haven't noticed whats going on here yet. Over time I hope - tell your mates!

colin jones
25-10-00, 21:40
Thanks BM, it’s nice to know I’m a Forum Flasher and yes, it does make me think of newsagent’s top shelves.I personally don’t think we need to use censorship in this Forum yet. Like others who have replied in this thread I don’t like the thinly disguised bad language but if we had censorship we wouldn’t have had the hysterically funny outburst from Kevin, ‘Why the f*ck should I LEARN from you. I not a f*cking 12 year old kid’ (He was so incensed he turned into a rastafarian ‘I not a ..’ so there ARE ethnic minorities out there mountain biking.) or ‘You're not my dad for F*cks sake’ and all at 10:00 in the morning. Excellent. We wouldn’t have had the equally funny response from the anonymous Uncle Nick either, ‘And you can't debate with the guy face to face unless you sew his mouth up’. Brilliant.What is worth noting is that the thread took a more sedate tone after that because we are all cyclists, it’s just some of us are more passionate about it than others. I personally didn’t see anything offensive in Brant’s original comments, obviously other people did, you never can tell.It was good stuff though and it obviously provoked some of us and hopefully improved the site. Perhaps it attracted newcomers rather than deterred them as I feared earlier. It’s a bit like those fights that happened at school, someone shouting ‘fight, fight, fight’ to round everyone up. Perhaps we should chant ‘forum, forum, forum’ when it gets heated?

colin jones
25-10-00, 21:43
On the question of manufacturers being invited into the Forum. How about BM deciding who to contact when a thread gets involved with a particular product? For instance when a few of us tried to alert PACE to their Dickensian web-site problem we didn’t get anywhere, perhaps BM could call them and get them involved? Similarly HOPE could’ve been notified when their issue was being discussed so they could get involved. We can’t hope (sorry) that they will be reading the Forum every day can we?Should we let them in when we want them in?

Kevin Hodgson
26-10-00, 09:39
I have to apologise profusely about my langauge and conduct on the 'grumpy sods' thread. I've looked back and re-read that thread to see what sparked the abuse. As far as I can see the thread had gone off at a tangent about the UCI when Brant called me a tosser. My reply was meant to calm him down but he replied by called me a liar, stupid and a tosser. Whether he was doing this just to liven the forum up, wind me up or both, I don't know. But it worked. I lost it! But I have had a few 'nuisance' emails of uncle nick in the past (which quite rightly are the modern equivalent of nuisance phonecalls), and just when I'm getting a kicking from Brant, he steps in to boot me when I'm down. Like, the guy doesn't contribute to the forum or articles. Link to his name and all you'll find his him abusing me, and nothing else. So I lost it super big style!And I'm sorry for that. Then my anger spilled over onto a few other threads. Don't get me wrong, I don't like trading insults at all, it really pees me off. On more than one occassion I was a few minutes away from sacking BM off alltogether and going back to being anonymous.

Julian
26-10-00, 09:53
This Forum is improving all of the time and, for Luddites such as I, is essential reading for discovering new angles and views on technology. However, occassionally, our long-lost school yard mentality kicks in, sides are chosen and playground warfare ensues. It's easy to be contentious and intimidating when you are sitting in front of a pc. Don't take it personally Kevin; take it as a compliment. Your spat with Brant had my e-mail service in red-line mode and was hugely entertaining from here (as I sat here holding the coats!). Like you, I've had afters" from one or two folk - I find it amusing that they've apparently nothing else to worry about.Chill, as they'd say at school."

richard barton
26-10-00, 10:23
It's good to have you back Kevin!I guess I've been lucky as no-one has e-mailed me - or my comments are so bad, no-one can be bothered wasting the time!

Kevin Hodgson
26-10-00, 11:00
Conversation is a great thing, not only does it consist of words, but expressions in the voice and face convey lots of meaning.Unfortunately email correspondence is just words, which can often be misinterpreted. It is also very easy to swear and insult someone via a computer keyboard from miles away, sometimes also anonymously.Hmmmmm..... We'll have to have a BM ride some time I reckon.

Toni Ertl
26-10-00, 15:55
I can tell you one reason people are intimidated - the thought of the stream of abuse their idea might get if they happen to step outside the opinions of a select few. I lurked for a while before posting, and then did it carefully at first, but without allowing email reply. Kevin et al's mention of abusive email has confirmed that I was right to do this!Part of it is security too - nobody likes to get it wrong when they've only just stuck their head over the parapet, and not everyone can actually take it, even when it's from a distance. I would prefer not to have censorship, but the idea of a rusty chain symbol for abusers is great. I would recommend not preventing people posting, but instead let them collect more chains for each complaint. That way if you do get blasted, you know whether they are just whingers, or serious. The chains could expire after a month or so.

Toni Ertl
26-10-00, 15:57
One more thought on censorship - we could exercise the ultimate form - just totally ignore the postings of the abusers. Now, will anyone bother to answer that?

Cullen Ward
26-10-00, 15:59
Sound of wind blowing tumbleweed through deserted town

Kevin Hodgson
26-10-00, 16:07
Someone said that my behaviour was scaring people off from using the forum, I hope this is not true.But I do feel that forum behaviour can scare people off from writing articles, which is a massive shame. The last thing you want after 2 hours of work penning something is a mauling on the forum for it.Before criticising someone's work, please realise the damage this could do to BM. If something genuinely is rubbish/offensive then I'm sure cullen will edit it or refuse to post it. BM needs more articles, and new article/review writers. Go on, stick your head above the parapet, but everyone else please hold fire!

Toni Ertl
26-10-00, 16:33
Thanks Cullen - no Kevin, it's not you, but the thought of settling down to one's email and then finding a pile of trash because I might have a different opinion. Probably what happened to you?

mick ward
26-10-00, 17:48
This thread has thrown up some very interesting ideas, not least in the censorship/black mark (rusty chain) categorie. We should be very, very careful about introducing censorship in any form.Would you accept it any where else?. Who does the censoring?. Who censors what?. The moderator?. Who moderates the moderator?. In other forums(nothing to do with cycling) I have seen this sort of control get completely out of hand, ultimately affecting reasonable debate. It is fairly easy to introduce controls, much more difficult to remove them. Caution, I think, should be our first consideration here or we could be in danger of damaging a lively and facinating forum.

Dave Jones
26-10-00, 18:15
Writing for BM ain't no problem and any flak that goes with it is purely self-induced as i'm sure kevin would agree. ...ok he won't agree but why write in the first place, is it just to see your work in print, to pass on some information, to have an influence? All of the above? Mr Hodgson has some forth right views (so do I) how far you pursue these in the written word is another thing. And hey Maaan whats wrong with peace?

Toni Ertl
26-10-00, 18:47
Dead right we don't want censorship- the rusty chain could be linked to complaints against individuals, but only used to show who was a pain. If someone posts and they have a pile of chains by their name then you know to watch for insults rather than content. They still say what they want, but you value it accordingly ; )people with opinions are interesting and important. People with opinions and a stick are nazis.

colin jones
27-10-00, 06:40
Being able to apologise when you're out of order is cool. We are all capable of censoring ourselves, we've just done it haven't we? Well done everyone, great leaps forward this last couple of weeks. It's feels good to be a part of this doesn't it? I also noticed Hitman got fed up and moved on, or took another alias.

Alistair Freeman
27-10-00, 13:07
Dave, for what it's worth the reason I wrote the review of the Lumicycle lights and sent it in was because I thought it might help people make a decision on what to buy - someone had started a thread on the subject of rechargable lights in the forum, so it seemed appropriate. I don't have any particular urge to see myself in print or to influence anyone: I do think that we should contribute (if we feel we have something that would be of use) to help make BM a success. I would have thought that most other contributors had similar reasons. People should feel free to make contributions, articles, forum postings, whatever, without feeling that they might be seen to be being egotistical or preaching. If we don't then ultimately BM will be just another website rather than having the community feel that it's developing now.

Dave Jones
29-10-00, 15:43
Alistair, you're right. But,it ain't what you say but the way that you say it!

Gary Ewing
30-10-00, 14:29
Earlier in this thread there was the concern that if manufacturers are invited how do we stop them from using (patronising) marketing language.There is also the concern about abusive contributors.Censorship is dangerous. That has been said too. People have to feel they are free to express themselves in whatever way they choose. If the average Jo on the site doesn't then agree with the comments then that person will soon find out.We are lucky to be part of a site such as this where the members actively care about the quality of the debates. Unkle Nick was told where to go, and hasn't come back yet.The best form of censorship is the form that is currently in operation on this site. If people get banned they will just rejoin under a different name and continue hurling abuse and terrorising the site. Which won't help.If someone sends you an email full of abuse then tell us, and lets humiliate that person publicly on the forum.Contributors must learn that unsolicited abuse will not be tolerated.And it's the average BM member that has to do the teaching.

Barry Tosspot
30-10-00, 14:53
Oh please...

Toni Ertl
30-10-00, 16:06
Alright, if you insist.

Uncle Nick
30-10-00, 18:26
Unkle Nick was told where to go, and hasn't come back yet."Uncle Nick was too busy having a life and actually going out riding. I am also too thick to realise I had been told where to go. If I had realised it I would have ignored it anyway.Still I'm not so thick I can't spell."

colin jones
30-10-00, 20:30
Funnily enough I didn't detect that Uncle Nick had been told where to go either. I thought his comments were as valid as anyone elses. Funny how postings can be interpreted so differently. And what are you doing riding? You should be here debating. Tsk, tsk, some people!

Gary Ewing
31-10-00, 14:07
Sorry about that last post, it was perhaps a bit heavy. Still it made me feel better.Hitmann would perhaps have been a better example to use.Oh, and I can spell. Sometimes I just choose not to.

ben pinnick
31-10-00, 14:11
I have to say Gary, you are takng it very seriously. Some people might start confusing the forum for something other than a place to seek/give advice and publically abuse others if we aren't careful.

Gary Ewing
31-10-00, 18:43
Perhaps there is something I'm missing, but Uncle Nick's seemingly unprovoked comments seemed to be slightly unhinged and psychotic. From reading the thread all we could tell was that he'd met Kevin briefly, and that somehow warranted a torrent of abuse?It's great when we see an argument hotting up, and it breaks into shouting, but when someone just turns up out of the blue and starts laying into a regular I do find it a bit worrying.Anyway, Perhaps I was just taken aback because I enjoyed reading Uncle Nick's occasional MaximumMTB article?

Uncle Nick
01-11-00, 02:22
Some of us can be controversial for controversies sake and write something to stir up debate, even though we do not necessarily believe in the things we are proposing/defending.See the saint/sinner article at www.32sixteen.com for an example. And we haven't been sued yet.

Barry Tosspot
01-11-00, 09:37
Or most of the stuff I've ever written in this forum.

Kevin Hodgson
01-11-00, 10:05
Uncle Nick and myself have decided to bury the hatchet, realised how silly it was to despise someone you've barely met, and that personal insults aren't getting either of us anywhere.I am very happy with this decision, as, to be frank, I wasn't enjoying it. It is a very bizarre thing to throw personal insults around like that, and its all about bikes at the end of the day.Yes - bikes. Those 2 wheeled things we all love. I still think that its OK to have heated discussions about equipment, but turning that into personal insults is plain stupid.Nick has one hell of a lot of knowledge of all things bike, and perhaps he could write something for BM sometime ;-)Clean sheet, no hard feelings.

David Parr
02-11-00, 04:14
And so say all of us, and so say all of us for.......................

colin jones
02-11-00, 05:40
No hard feelings? Quick, out with the PACE catalogue.

spanner boy
27-09-01, 13:56
interesting

Ancient @Mariner.Dan
27-09-01, 15:14
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. It came as a real shock to see how many that contribed to this thread DON'T come here any more. Most of them seemed to have disappeared over the last 4 months or so. Pedal voting allright, but but they added something that the trolls can't replace. Fresh blood is not necessarily good, when it's carrying syphilis.

Rob Sutherland
27-09-01, 15:20
I am noticing this as well - it's getting to the stage where you start looking for somewhere else to go during office hours. Surely they all have to be hiding somewhere.It is going downhill though, maybe time for a change of scenery....

Dan (Fire Beer Mayhem)
27-09-01, 15:22
if it gets any worse i'm off to mbuk.Dan

(D)Anne Brown
27-09-01, 15:23
What ever happened to the newbie FAQ sheet and a netiquet guide. Some of this seems relevant now.

Dave Parr
27-09-01, 17:38
It's funny, I've not signed in for a while, and can't be bothered posting most of the time when I do come on. There was a time I'd sign in every day, see if there was anyone I could help, argue with etc. I'm beginning to realise why I'm not so interested. I read this thread for the first 15 posts or so thinking what an impressive, insult free and interesting debate it was, until I saw my name and realised it was an old, old thread, still seems relevant, but sadly I can't see how a thread could go this far these days without some humourous" hijacking. Note the way that people who had been severely slagging one another agreed to cool it, and no more was heard of the matter. I'm not claiming to be one of the more experienced or knowledgeable ones here, but I don't slag people off (except Dan of course) and I've always tried to help people out, why I, and so many others have become an object of some peoples hatred is beyond me."

Alex Leigh
27-09-01, 17:53
Not just me then Dave. I was re-reading the thread and thought this makes alot of sense. Maybe nostalga isn't what it used to be but I would like to see more threads in the spirit of this one. Still, you could argue that it's a democracy of sorts and he who shouts loudest....

Jon Doran
27-09-01, 20:00
Isn't democracy at least partly about ensuring that the rights of the majority aren't trashed by vociferous minorities, while still allowing everyone a fair chance to state their opinions? 'He who shouts loudest' is anarchy or something like it isn't it?Danarchy maybe...

Alex Leigh
27-09-01, 20:50
Jon. Whilst I have neither the skill or the will to debate political systems, I do find myself agreeing with you. You either get tired or bored of arguing when the response is either f**k off or why are you getting at me.

Dave Parr
27-09-01, 23:09
That's it exactly, I like people disagreeing with me, it's good to see all sides of the argument, but when I get told to F##k off for explaining why one thing will work better than another, I wonder why I bother. The original argument (Brant vs Kev) seems so unimportant now because they managed to be adults about it all. It doesn't take long for funny" insults to get, well, boring. The silliness has always been a part of the forum (and any forum) and I tend to avoid most of it, but who cares? It's fun, insults and constant "look at me" (tm Dan) threads get soo mind numbingly dull (or is that Gay?) that I really don't bother looking in all that much any more."

Will Fear
10-04-03, 19:29
Yeah, I think a bit of healthy debate is fine, but mindless insults are just gay.

Luke Rake
10-04-03, 22:14
As are homophobes.Damn, did it again. Sorry. ;0)

Montgomery Wick
11-04-03, 06:16
Ah,

Dobbo .......
11-04-03, 07:48
Kevin you're a liar, stupid and a tosser.

Charlie T
11-04-03, 07:51
We have more fun here these days I reckon.

SloBoy - Also answers to Andy
11-04-03, 07:58
Is that cos we don't talk about bikes much ?Tricky blighters, bikes.

Charlie T
11-04-03, 07:59
Think I've got a couple of them somewhere...

SloBoy - Also answers to Andy
11-04-03, 08:00
Yeah but who cares ?And anyway, since we both have NRS all we can do is agree.

Muddy Bronco
11-04-03, 08:00
Morning everyone!Lovely day. End of term!! Yeeha!!!

SloBoy - Also answers to Andy
11-04-03, 08:01
Do coppers have end of term ?Have the baddy-men noticed this ?

Muddy Bronco
11-04-03, 08:03
You do if you're a schools involvement and youth crime diversion officer.Two weeks youth clubby/outdoory things.I tend to leave the baddy-men to the real police.

Mike
12-04-03, 14:45
what like the ones in the bill

Dan (Dan)
12-04-03, 14:56
see the slagging of i get ?Dan